Vynertje's Support AMA and advice thread

[quote=Embracing]need some help with [[alistar]]. I generally don't support so I'm not sure if this question makes any sense, but how do you identify when to WQ in lane to trade? I only know how to WQ in / flash q in to get kills[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=Embracing]need some help with [[alistar]]. I generally don't support so I'm not sure if this question makes any sense, but how do you identify when to WQ in lane to trade? I only know how to WQ in / flash q in to get kills[/quote] I don't think you should WQ a lot, only when someone is in a really bad position. Alistar in general is a relatively passive laner and has very little kill potential aside from flash-q-w with jungler/turret. Repeatedly using WQ will cause your mana pool to dop before the enemy drop low enough to all in, while holding on to the WQ will allow you to zone.[/quote]

[quote=utopus]You're right that it's an important thing to learn. A lot of players that I mentor are often times simply too afraid to 'pull the trigger' when they could afford to do so. It depends heavily on the matchup. Like, vs. a [[soraka]] or a [[janna]], the only real time you can win a trade by WQ-ing in is if you're setting up a jungle gank. If you're looking to trade into a matchup that is favorable for [[alistar]], ([[brand]], [[tahm kench]], [[thresh]]) then you should look to WQ when they are clumped such that you can stun both champions with your knockup. Another time that it's desirable to WQ trade is when you and your carry can CC your opponent carry without giving your opponent support a chance to peel for his carry. It's tough to explain, but i'll see if I can show you an example of what I mean some time later today or tomorrow[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]wat lulu should faceroll alistar except if ali can flash-qw her under turret[/quote]

[quote=utopus]Oops. I was thinking about [[thresh]] while I was looking at one of my [[lulu]] games. Sorry :S Will edit[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard][quote=Vynertje]Secondly, your post is full of shit and I would like to ask you to remove it or at the very least reconsider some of the statements. It's true that if you want to snowball a noob team as a good player it's better to take a snowbally champion, but if you're roughly the same skill level as your team/the enemy team there aren't really any bad picks. You're like talking about a good Leona (who picks good engages and has her team follow up) versus a bad janna (who fucks up all her ults). Leona can fuck up just as hard by picking 4v5 engages, and Janna can just as well do a great job by preventing her noob teammates from dying 24/7.[/quote]I agree with this sentiment. My placement matches dropped me into Bronze and I currently have a 75% win rate with [[Janna]]. I also average less than two deaths per game. [[Janna]] is perfectly fine in low Elo.[/quote]

[quote=Ixtellor][quote=Vynertje]First, >V responded to this saying "play what you want if you play it well" no, I said play whatever you enjoy playing and have decent results on. Practice = key. To get a lot of practice in you need to enjoy the champ else you're going to be burnt out very quickly. If there's a champ you enjoy and you feel like you're having good results on that champ, it should be your personal priority pick. The more you play/practice it, the better you will become at it and the easier it will be to climb. Secondly, your post is full of shit and I would like to ask you to remove it or at the very least reconsider some of the statements. It's true that if you want to snowball a noob team as a good player it's better to take a snowbally champion, but if you're roughly the same skill level as your team/the enemy team there aren't really any bad picks. You're like talking about a good Leona (who picks good engages and has her team follow up) versus a bad janna (who fucks up all her ults). Leona can fuck up just as hard by picking 4v5 engages, and Janna can just as well do a great job by preventing her noob teammates from dying 24/7.[/quote] Let me clarify, and if you still disagree I will delete per your request.. Imagine 5v5 mid standoff Scenario 1 -- everyone is bad. A bad Leona E's into the enemy. Will your bad team notice that? In my experience as a bad player playing in bad leagues --- yes they will notice it and they will do... something. A bad Janna Shields your Xin. Will your bad team notice that? Almost certainly not. Scenarior 2 - still all bad. What is the worst a Leona can do with her ult? Waste it... land it on a bush where nobody is? Bait her team into a bad engage by initiating? What is the worst a Janna can do with her ult? Put a melee bruiser right on top of your own ADC. THAT IS MUCH WORSE. Ruin a Brand ult... think of all the ults a Janna can RUIN with her R. Help a fleeing person escape... but giving them that extra shove. When is the last time you played in Bronze/Silver as a bad player? You could go Garen support and dominate --- does that mean that Garen support is good advice for a bad player? I am just stating that for bad players in low ELO there are easier champs to help your team. I am currently a bad player in Silver 4 and I pray to the Summoner gods that the enemy picks Janna support. I cry rivers of blood when my team picks Janna support. Watching bottom going 0-10 as a thresh, leona, or blitz spam kills her over and over. So I weighed in and offered a suggestion to a new support player --- about what I see every day happening to Janna in low ELO. (Another person mentioned they have 75% win rate on Janna in low ELO--- its because you are way better than your soft reset ELO would indicate. And basically you will just keep winning with whatever champ you pick because you are better than your rank.) My comments were directed at a low elo player not, someone who got put in low elo but will soon be out.[/quote]

[quote=Out Of Pancakes]My ADc couldn't dodge Blitz hooks for shit as Kallista. Thus, he asked me to stand in front of him at all time, so that I would get hooked instead of him, considering that was my job as a support (I was Thresh, ennemy ADC Lucian). I obviously said that this was his own business to dodge Blitz hooks and not my job to eat them, which he did not understand. Considering that he still got grabbed a lot of times and died all those said times, would it have been a good idea eating those hooks myself? Past a certain point, they were so ahead it was clearly out of the question but, before that, if your ADc is pretty terrible at dodging skillshots, and in the said lane matchup, would it be a thing to consider?[/quote]

[quote=EricboyZ]Hey Guys, I ward enough i have the most wards of the game 9 of the 10 games, i also buy pinks frequently. But still i have trouble with my positioning as support like i get caught out a bit too mutch for my liking so do u guys have any tips for positioning? as tanky supports mostly in teamfights and in the botlane? and my 2nd question is the same as the one above which is Written by 'Out Of Pancakes"[quote]My ADc couldn't dodge Blitz hooks for shit. Considering that he still got grabbed a lot of times and died all those said times, would it have been a good idea eating those hooks myself? Past a certain point, they were so ahead it was clearly out of the question but, before that, if your ADc is pretty terrible at dodging skillshots, and in the said lane matchup, would it be a thing to consider?[/quote] Thanks in advance Guys <3[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=Ixtellor][quote=Vynertje]First, >V responded to this saying "play what you want if you play it well" no, I said play whatever you enjoy playing and have decent results on. Practice = key. To get a lot of practice in you need to enjoy the champ else you're going to be burnt out very quickly. If there's a champ you enjoy and you feel like you're having good results on that champ, it should be your personal priority pick. The more you play/practice it, the better you will become at it and the easier it will be to climb. Secondly, your post is full of shit and I would like to ask you to remove it or at the very least reconsider some of the statements. It's true that if you want to snowball a noob team as a good player it's better to take a snowbally champion, but if you're roughly the same skill level as your team/the enemy team there aren't really any bad picks. You're like talking about a good Leona (who picks good engages and has her team follow up) versus a bad janna (who fucks up all her ults). Leona can fuck up just as hard by picking 4v5 engages, and Janna can just as well do a great job by preventing her noob teammates from dying 24/7.[/quote] Let me clarify, and if you still disagree I will delete per your request.. Imagine 5v5 mid standoff Scenario 1 -- everyone is bad. A bad Leona E's into the enemy. Will your bad team notice that? In my experience as a bad player playing in bad leagues --- yes they will notice it and they will do... something. A bad Janna Shields your Xin. Will your bad team notice that? Almost certainly not.[/quote] You're comparing two completely unrelated spells. This is not a relevant comparison: your shield is useful either way in most scenarios. The better comparison would be a Leona E vs Janna Q. One can be used for engage, the other can completely fuck up the enemy engage (with the ults achieving the same). They serve different purposes. A good Janna at low Elo will prevent the enemy from killing your ADC at all times. A good Leona at low Elo will get constant good engages off. Yes, Leona will be better at snowballing but can also fuck up majorly (she has no back button) by baiting your team into bad fights. [quote] Scenarior 2 - still all bad. What is the worst a Leona can do with her ult? Waste it... land it on a bush where nobody is? Bait her team into a bad engage by initiating? What is the worst a Janna can do with her ult? Put a melee bruiser right on top of your own ADC. THAT IS MUCH WORSE. Ruin a Brand ult... think of all the ults a Janna can RUIN with her R. Help a fleeing person escape... but giving them that extra shove. [/quote] I think you're incredibly biased towards Leona and against Janna. Leona essentially has the "go" button for her team, which means she controls when a fight happens. That is great if you're much better than your enemies, but if you're just as good (or worse!) it can also mean you pick terrible engages and lose a 5v5 fight decisively off of that. Both can majorly fuck up one way or another, and from experience I think it's much easier to fuck up as Leona (even though her mechanics are straight forward) than as Janna. In some ways decisiveness is a good thing (better to engage than to do nothing for 50+ minutes) but it doesn't work if you're not 5v5 all the time or when you fall behind (or when the enemy team has a good support). [quote]When is the last time you played in Bronze/Silver as a bad player? You could go Garen support and dominate --- does that mean that Garen support is good advice for a bad player? I am just stating that for bad players in low ELO there are easier champs to help your team. I am currently a bad player in Silver 4 and I pray to the Summoner gods that the enemy picks Janna support. I cry rivers of blood when my team picks Janna support. Watching bottom going 0-10 as a thresh, leona, or blitz spam kills her over and over. So I weighed in and offered a suggestion to a new support player --- about what I see every day happening to Janna in low ELO. [/quote] So basically you're basing this comment, which by the way was by no means phrased as a suggestion but rather a fact, purely off of your casual experiences and probably some bad luck? Janna as a champion should be incredibly safe, especially versus the champions you mentioned. If it doesn't work out that's purely because of the individual players skill (read: their botlane was simply much better) and not on champion picks. Again, if you really want to hard carry you need some way to snowball and I agree Janna is not the ideal champion for that. However, a second condition for hard-carrying a game is that you actually need to be significantly beter than your enemies. If you're not significantly better, there's no point in trying to hard carry. This is even more important when offrole: don't pick something that relies on aggression and outplays when you're not confident on your role.[/quote]