Yup, and this goes for a lot of other champions/strats/etc. It's a very common mistake made by especially lower Elo players who come from other games where it is a common thing to do. I see it in a lot of guides where itemization is questionable.
That doesn't mean it is a bad thing to sometimes check stuff mathematically or to ask for clarification, but math is never the main answer.
That doesn't mean it is a bad thing to sometimes check stuff mathematically or to ask for clarification, but math is never the main answer.
lanilwow wrote:
The engineer in me cries out in defiance of this this, but ok. At the end of the day I have to respect the knowledge of the experienced!
Allow me to elaborate. For example, you have a build which relies on heavy attack speed/on hit damage. Mathematically speaking it does a metric ****ton of damage, even when you are factoring enemy armor, magic resist and health.
However, what you cannot mathematically estimate is the amount of attack speed you lose due to kiting the enemy (you cannot just stand still and hit the enemy, you will die if you don't try to kite backwards) or actually being kited/cc'd etc.
I did this once on a 2.5 attack speed
Kayle build. However, with so much attack speed it is practically impossible to kite backwards and still get 2.5 attacks per second, so you will lose some attacks. I'd estimate you can perhaps still get 1.5 attack per second when kiting backwards, down from the 2.5. So while that 2.5 attack speed build may have seemed so good, you'd perhaps have been better off with a little bit more AP or AD.---
Note for this example: attack speed makes your attack animation go faster, so it doesn't mean you should necessarily aim for that 1.5 AS. When you're forced to kite backwards you will still lose a portion of that, perhaps dropping down to 1.2.
However, as attack speed animation and kiting is something that depends on player skill, fight details and the specific champion, you cannot estimate a set % of AS you lose due to kiting. Therefore that is just one reason you cannot mathematically judge what build is best.
lanilwow wrote:
This!
Drives me nuts as well. Very hard to find a good detail specific discussions.
I'm getting a lot out of here and it is very helpful!
Based on this discussion I found myself actually making an educated decision on the load screen as to what starting item to use. If the match up looked like we would be aggressive I took the Frost Queen. If it looked to be a bad match up for us I went Coin. One small step in the right direction I think.
Good stuff on boots! Thanks!
Yes, I feel your ward pain... I never had enough wards!!! 3 and 2 max on the map feels like way too little and I am always out and having to go refill!
Well personally you shouldn't bother for first item, i use simple formula: 1.If u are poke champion frost queen 2.If you're tank shield 3.If you're true support like janna and soraka you can go coin for safe or queen for little dangerous poking. And for wards buy sightstone and purple ward trinket and u'll be fine...
Vynertje
Funny you should use attack speed as an example. I built a high attack speed high dps Warwick. The build site I was at said 1,600 dps with the full build.
I was able to build the full build on my first game with it. He would tear even tanks down in no time. Don't let me catch you out one on one! BUT he was as resilient as wet paper. If he could not close he was dead. In team fights, if he was targeted, he was dead.
Only played it one game then went back to the meta. His kill count was ridiculous but even I could see that it was not viable in real games. We just happened to play a weak team.
Yes, there is more to playing this game than the raw numbers. But I sure like the numbers!
Ok, I feel knowledgeable on first items, core items and boots. Next I will have to video a game and let you critique. Just the lane phase for now.
Though team fights are my biggest weakness. We must proceed one step at a time. My positioning is often off in team fights and recognizing the proper moment for the proper skill is tough... I suspect that is learned from playing a lot of games and hopefully some instruction will help.
Currently I recognize things to late. A good example is a death I suffered in the mid lane last night. My two teammates were killed in a 3v4 and I was running for my life. Everything was on cool down. exhaust, flash, every spell... they got me and killed me. But still I felt that there was someway to escape and I missed it. Two hours later as I was getting into bed a picture of the screen at the moment I died went through my head and I noticed that I had the fully build on the coin (what is that called). There it sat in the #3 slot and it was up... That was my escape... hit 3 and run. Things like that can only be learned and recognized at the right moment through lots and lots of play time.
For now you need to finish that Ward vid! I ward like crazy, but I'm not sure I am warding smart... I need to read your post a few more times!
Thank you for all the help!
Funny you should use attack speed as an example. I built a high attack speed high dps
Warwick. The build site I was at said 1,600 dps with the full build.I was able to build the full build on my first game with it. He would tear even tanks down in no time. Don't let me catch you out one on one! BUT he was as resilient as wet paper. If he could not close he was dead. In team fights, if he was targeted, he was dead.
Only played it one game then went back to the meta. His kill count was ridiculous but even I could see that it was not viable in real games. We just happened to play a weak team.
Yes, there is more to playing this game than the raw numbers. But I sure like the numbers!
Ok, I feel knowledgeable on first items, core items and boots. Next I will have to video a game and let you critique. Just the lane phase for now.
Though team fights are my biggest weakness. We must proceed one step at a time. My positioning is often off in team fights and recognizing the proper moment for the proper skill is tough... I suspect that is learned from playing a lot of games and hopefully some instruction will help.
Currently I recognize things to late. A good example is a death I suffered in the mid lane last night. My two teammates were killed in a 3v4 and I was running for my life. Everything was on cool down. exhaust, flash, every spell... they got me and killed me. But still I felt that there was someway to escape and I missed it. Two hours later as I was getting into bed a picture of the screen at the moment I died went through my head and I noticed that I had the fully build on the coin (what is that called). There it sat in the #3 slot and it was up... That was my escape... hit 3 and run. Things like that can only be learned and recognized at the right moment through lots and lots of play time.
For now you need to finish that Ward vid! I ward like crazy, but I'm not sure I am warding smart... I need to read your post a few more times!
Thank you for all the help!
Freescar wrote:
Well personally you shouldn't bother for first item, i use simple formula: 1.If u are poke champion frost queen 2.If you're tank shield 3.If you're true support like janna and soraka you can go coin for safe or queen for little dangerous poking. And for wards buy sightstone and purple ward trinket and u'll be fine...
If by frost queen you mean spellthief and by purple trinket you mean red, yes.
lanilwow wrote:
Spoiler: Click to viewAs said, warding video/guide will take some time (estimating 1-2 weeks) as my new mic is stuck in customs for 3 days now at the airport. Once it arrives I have to gather footage and make voice recordings of everything I want to discuss.
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