Vynertje wrote:
Rephrase:
That's not a true support build
That's not a true support build
So, oh wise one, what would be a true support build that is also effective and not just a waste of gold because you don't want to look greedy? The only tanky "supportish" items I can think of are
Frozen Heart and Locket of the Iron Solari. They're OK, but their auras are often overrated. My main issue with "supportish" items is that their strength tends to be flat, whereas damage and tank items tend to have more multiplicative effects that greatly enhance their power. "Support" items were fine in season 3, when supports could only afford to build a couple of items, but now that they get a lot more gold, there is a lot more opportunity to build items that strengthen and multiply one another. And getting back to the Poppy build above, the slow from the Iceborn Gauntlet and the armor cleave from Black Cleaver also enhances the power of the team's adc and other physical damage dealers on the team. So, they both help Poppy's power and the power of teammates. When Riot creates some support items that multiply and reinforce one another, then they'll be worth looking at. But right now, the best thing to do is find items that can both multiply your own power and the power of your teammates.
First, I should clear up the misunderstanding that I only categorize items like locket/mikaels under the supportive category. In this instance, I use it as a very broad term that defines any kind of item that is only aimed at providing utility in one way or another to your team, not at damage. This includes generic tank items. My problem therefore is only with building DAMAGE items on poppy support.
Again, I don't claim to know-all on Poppy support because I don't. A generic support build with CDR and tank stats would probably work best for her, but I don't know the exact items. Locket would probably be my item to go with after Eye/FOTM and boots (most likely swifties). After that I'd look towards randuins/fh.
Damage on any support sucks because:
1. You earn more gold, but not enough to warrant going for "multiplicative effects" on offensive items. If you start getting cleaver and gauntlet directly after your support item, you'll find yourself being too squishy until very late into the game - especially considering cleaver costs 3.5k and has a terrible build path for a support.
2. 90% of teams do not need a support that deals damage because they have enough damage on their comp already. Instead, what they need is a form of utility that helps them dish out that constant damage. That can be either through direct support items (i.e. locket) or simply someone that can help tank. I'm not denying cleaver/gauntlet also help somewhat in that regard, but by no means comparable to a build that fully prioritizes utility, 40% cdr and tank stats.
Not saying your suggested build can't work (because it's a good build for poppy top, so it can work for poppy support if you get the $$ and you have the right team to pull it off), but it's far from optimal in a relatively competitive environment.
Again, I don't claim to know-all on Poppy support because I don't. A generic support build with CDR and tank stats would probably work best for her, but I don't know the exact items. Locket would probably be my item to go with after Eye/FOTM and boots (most likely swifties). After that I'd look towards randuins/fh.
Damage on any support sucks because:
1. You earn more gold, but not enough to warrant going for "multiplicative effects" on offensive items. If you start getting cleaver and gauntlet directly after your support item, you'll find yourself being too squishy until very late into the game - especially considering cleaver costs 3.5k and has a terrible build path for a support.
2. 90% of teams do not need a support that deals damage because they have enough damage on their comp already. Instead, what they need is a form of utility that helps them dish out that constant damage. That can be either through direct support items (i.e. locket) or simply someone that can help tank. I'm not denying cleaver/gauntlet also help somewhat in that regard, but by no means comparable to a build that fully prioritizes utility, 40% cdr and tank stats.
Not saying your suggested build can't work (because it's a good build for poppy top, so it can work for poppy support if you get the $$ and you have the right team to pull it off), but it's far from optimal in a relatively competitive environment.
So as Poppy you're supposed to buy Black Cleaver and MoM when exactly?
After you buy FOTM and ruby sight stone /Eye of the Equinox, Locket, Randuins and boots of swiftness, which would be nice if it worked except t that point the items will do jack**** because it's late game and you probably won't afford them anyway? And yeah why don't you buy Frozen Heart/Iceborn last time I checked it was good to cap CDR on a tanky support.
I mean Poppy's damage is ******ed anyway being able to basically one shot a squishy with one or two offensive items does not translate to I SHOULD DO THIS AS THE SUPP THATS HELPFUL
After you buy FOTM and ruby sight stone /Eye of the Equinox, Locket, Randuins and boots of swiftness, which would be nice if it worked except t that point the items will do jack**** because it's late game and you probably won't afford them anyway? And yeah why don't you buy Frozen Heart/Iceborn last time I checked it was good to cap CDR on a tanky support.
I mean Poppy's damage is ******ed anyway being able to basically one shot a squishy with one or two offensive items does not translate to I SHOULD DO THIS AS THE SUPP THATS HELPFUL
Basically MOBAFire.
theerash wrote:
When using champs like thresh or blitz should you be very selective when using your hooks to catch enemies off guard?
Or is any opportunity you get one you should take?
Or is any opportunity you get one you should take?
I generally recommend being selective, because good enemies will punish you during the ~15s your hook is down (also mana costs!). It doesn't mean you should only hook when you know it's a 100% hit, but don't just throw it out max-range randomly whenever it's off cooldown.
Hey Vynertje,
I have read ur Thresh Guide, i have improve because of it so thanks for that.
But im here to ask 2 questions,
1st: What should i do when botlane (me and my adc mostly) are fed and then some other lane like midlane is getting totally stomped. Should i roam or just push bot with my ADCarry and set up vision around the objectives?
2nd: I main Support and mostly i play Janna, Alistar, Braum and Thresh. I find it hard to climb in ranked with support do u have any good advice for me?
Thanks in Advance,
EricboyZ
I have read ur Thresh Guide, i have improve because of it so thanks for that.
But im here to ask 2 questions,
1st: What should i do when botlane (me and my adc mostly) are fed and then some other lane like midlane is getting totally stomped. Should i roam or just push bot with my ADCarry and set up vision around the objectives?
2nd: I main Support and mostly i play Janna, Alistar, Braum and Thresh. I find it hard to climb in ranked with support do u have any good advice for me?
Thanks in Advance,
EricboyZ
EricboyZ wrote:
Hey Vynertje,
I have read ur Thresh Guide, i have improve because of it so thanks for that.
But im here to ask 2 questions,
1st: What should i do when botlane (me and my adc mostly) are fed and then some other lane like midlane is getting totally stomped. Should i roam or just push bot with my ADCarry and set up vision around the objectives?
2nd: I main Support and mostly i play Janna, Alistar, Braum and Thresh. I find it hard to climb in ranked with support do u have any good advice for me?
Thanks in Advance,
EricboyZ
I have read ur Thresh Guide, i have improve because of it so thanks for that.
But im here to ask 2 questions,
1st: What should i do when botlane (me and my adc mostly) are fed and then some other lane like midlane is getting totally stomped. Should i roam or just push bot with my ADCarry and set up vision around the objectives?
2nd: I main Support and mostly i play Janna, Alistar, Braum and Thresh. I find it hard to climb in ranked with support do u have any good advice for me?
Thanks in Advance,
EricboyZ
1: Once you have a decisive advantage you want to snowball your lead to other lanes, through:
a) take bot tower
b) rotate mid with your adc, take mid tower (mostly effective when enemy mid laner is low on waveclear) - make sure to push bot wave first though so the enemy botlane can't respond in-time
c) roam with your jungler to create 3v1 situations on top/mid or invade the enemy jungle and place deep wards while leaving your adc 1v2 (he should be fine if you communicate properly)
Note that taking dragon is kinda risky if the enemy mid laner is far ahead, so I wouldn't advise going for that unless you have a very clear advantage. Pushing bot is also a bit dangerous because the enemy jungler/mid can roam up on you relatively easily if you keep on pushing the 2v2 lane beyond the first tower
2: Just try to turn any advantage you have in a 2v2 lane into an advantage on the map. It's all nice if you have that 50 cs lead, but if you don't get any objectives that's worthless the further the game goes. Black out the map through pinks/sweepers and put a lot of pressure on other lanes after you've won your lane.
In general, placing deep wards is great when you're ahead because it completely shuts down the jungler (3 wards in the enemy bot side jungle and you know where the jungler is 24/7) and helps other lanes a lot if you use that to your advantage.
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