How to counter Wukong

[quote=Blydden][[Nasus]] or [[Cho'Gath]]. If you can't kill him, out-sustain him! He has no sustain himself so yeah.[/quote]

[quote=samgoeslol][quote=PsiGuard] [quote=samgoeslol] [quote=PsiGuard] [quote=Pølsemanden] #1 Can out-sustain him #2 When he runs away, slow/stun him and turn on "w" trade won! #3 After lvl 5 u should be able to 1v1 him(with armour seals and quints.) [/quote] 1. Irelia's sustain is unreliable as it is based off of on-hit life return (not actually lifesteal). No one maxes [[Hiten Style]] either, so your sustain isn't nearly as strong as most other sustain champions. 2. Wukong's use [[Decoy]] to retreat. You can't [[Equilibrium Strike]] him if he's invisible. 3. Almost all solo tops have armor seals. Wukong also has [[Crushing Blow]] to help him deal with enemy armor. I'm not saying that Irelia can't beat Wukong, but it's certainly not as simple as you make it sound. [/quote] 1: WOW what else is there to max on irelia against wukong? o0 2:if Wu uses decoy every time to retreat he will b oom after like 2-3 combos (easy w/ armor runes and early cloth/chain mall) 3: irelias main damage is her W and she pretty much 1v1s any1 while her W is up. i dont quite understand but okay there is alot that actually wins against wukong. just pick sth with sustain i rape wukong with tryndamere, skarner, udyr (just my 3 mains but they pretty much win against any1^^) teemo is rly good against wukong aswell and there are several other great picks the main thing is to play armor seals+quints tho against champs like wu, garen or gp^^ thats toplane 101 xD (several exeptions but most champions should run alot of armor vs phys top + jungler) greez sam [/quote] If you max [[Hiten Style]], you have no burst, and Wukong can just [[Decoy]] to prevent the majority of the damage trade. If you max [[Equilibrium Strike]], you have burst, but little sustain. I'd hardly think he'd be running out of mana just because he used a couple of abilities. Wukong doesn't have very high mana costs, and I've never had mana problems with him so far. Wukong is also not a typical autoattacker. A lot of his damage comes from maxing [[Numbus Strike]] and landing [[Crushing Blow]] if necessary. If he can take the damage trade, your armor will be reduced for subsequent hits, and his attack speed will also be increased. Maxing [[Hiten Style]] assumes that you'll have the opportunity to hammer away at him with multiple auto attacks, which is made difficult by [[Nimbus Strike]] and [[Decoy]]. Even if he isn't able to win damage trades, it's not too hard to passively farm with [[Nimbus Strike]]. His last-hitting is about as good as irelia. I agree that she out-sustains him, but that doesn't guarantee you a victory in the lane. Your personal experience proves nothing, especially since Wukong is not a commonly played champion. Also, all of the champions you listed are strong solo tops and I'm not surprised you were able to win a lane. The fact that people beat Nidalee with Cho'Gath does not prove that the one champion counters the other. Anyway, the point of my argument was not that Wukong is un-counterable, or that Irelia is a weak champion, or that Irelia doesn't have strengths that she can use to her advantage. My point was that you cannot win against a decent wukong by just locking in Irelia, pressing W and right-clicking him. It's possible that Irelia might be a decent counter-pick to Wukong, but she certainly doesn't just auto-win the lane leaving Wukong with no chance. [/quote] i never even thaught about irelia being an auto win or anything. i jsut see irelia beating wukong many times since i fancy myself a decent irelia and wukong player. Maxing w on irelia is not always about hitting your enemy, but it is about sustaining in lane and being able to return high, manaeficcient damage. Wukongs combo (including decoy) costs around 180 mana which is alot with the base manapool. Wukong runs oom pretty fast (idk how you ont run oom after a few combos) an the trick w/ him is getting the enemy out of lane before your lack of sustain gets to you (including the mana problems). at least thats the strategy im running and im usually winning my lane (even tho ive stopped playing wukong simply because i think there is better picks^^) @ blydden: im having trouble believing nasus woul counter wukong, because wukong can just press his early advantage to ahrd against him (thats what he is goo at anyways) TL;DR: pick a champion that outsustains him and additionally either naturally tanks his burst or doesnt get in trouble for rushing armor items. another approach would be picking champions that simply outburst -> zone him greez sam[/quote]

[quote=Wintermond][quote=Wintermond] Soraka. @Topic. [/quote][/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=samgoeslol] #1 Can out-sustain him #2 When he runs away, slow/stun him and turn on "w" trade won! #3 After lvl 5 u should be able to 1v1 him(with armour seals and quints.) ... 1: WOW what else is there to max on irelia against wukong? o0 2:if Wu uses decoy every time to retreat he will b oom after like 2-3 combos (easy w/ armor runes and early cloth/chain mall) 3: irelias main damage is her W and she pretty much 1v1s any1 while her W is up. ... i never even thaught about irelia being an auto win or anything. [/quote] You never outright said that Irelia is an auto-win, I just thought that the way you were giving advice made it sound [i]way[/i] too easy to beat him in lane. [quote=samgoeslol]Wukongs combo (including decoy) costs around 180 mana which is alot with the base manapool. Wukong runs oom pretty fast (idk how you ont run oom after a few combos) an the trick w/ him is getting the enemy out of lane before your lack of sustain gets to you (including the mana problems).[/quote] With all abilities at level one, [[wukong]]'s QWE combo costs 135 mana. With all abilities at level one, [[irelia]]'s QWE combo costs 150 mana. By the time Wukong's combo costs more than Irelia's, I would already have a [[philosopher's stone]] or something. I also take [[Expanded Mind]] and [[Meditation]], which helps with any mana issues that may arise. Obviously it's not always necessary for Irelia to use her full combo, nor is it required that Wukong uses his full combo every time he harasses. Also, like I said before, you don't have to force your enemy out of lane in order to survive with Wukong. [[Nimbus Strike]] makes it incredibly easy to farm safely, as you can last-hit and counter-push (if necessary) without much effort at all. It's also pretty difficult to dive a Wukong, as his [[Decoy]] can buy him more than 5 seconds under the tower, easily.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]I kinda suspect Irelia would lose that lane tbh. I think Wukong gets too strong too fast.[/quote]

[quote=LostTRoll]i was sure i explained everything to fight agianst him -.- why is this still going on[/quote]

[quote=samgoeslol]the problem w/ nimbus strike lasthitting is that the lane will push and theres not much you can o against it. In an AA-fight irelia will come out ahead. The lane might be pretty even early but i think irelia should get to win it post 6 (in theory that is). If i play irelia vs wukogn i start cloth + pots -> chain mall most of the time and it works quite well. just buil tabi -> chain mall -> phage -> atmas, works all the time against nonsustain all-physical champions^^ i just mentioned irelia because building early armor does in no way delay her core build and she still has great sustain + enaugh sustain w/o any dmg/lifesteal items. greez sam[/quote]

[quote=Wintermond][quote=LostTRoll] i was sure i explained everything to fight agianst him -.- why is this still going on [/quote] Because this is a discussion, my friend. Open for all and hard to come to an end. Also, there's alot more then you explained. :P[/quote]

[quote=Babit]I've vsd many a wukong as Irelia. Wukong can literally decimate Irelia early on. This is how I handle the lane. Early on stay back. Hes going to combo you whenever he gets a decent chance, but your leveling w up so just don't let him get full combos on you every time he wants to and focus on farming. This is going to make him feel like your scared and he has nothing to worry about. Once you hit lvl 9 and your w is doing 75 true dmg a hit while healing you for 25. Play as you have been and let him run himself low on mana, then bring the pain to HIM. I normally rush a Triforce when I play Irelia so at this point I have a sheen if not sheen + phage. Wukong does his combo and takes a little hp. As soon as he comes out of his stealth pop W>Q>E you should be able to get a stun on him and a few smacks. He will retreat at this point and start thinking about wtf just happened. It's all good, while hes doing that your farming/sustaining any dmg you took in the trade. He will more than likely try again with his combo. Rinse and repeat the process. Now you should have an advantage. Now he's thinking fuck this Irelia is op wtf. This is where you start the engagement and Q>E (if your w is still on cd which it should be because you don't to do this while he has decoy up) him and smack him around a bit. Continue to farm and zone him as you can. Push minions up the to tower go b buy some more parts to triforce and come back ready to do it all over again. It still takes timing, but maybe this will help end the flame war in this thread. If a Wukong can manage to absolutely zone you your a shitty Irelia player and that wukong deserves the win. But if you play smart Irelia will come out on top it just takes adaptability and foresight on the lane.[/quote]

[quote=samgoeslol][quote=Babit] I've vsd many a wukong as Irelia. Wukong can literally decimate Irelia early on. This is how I handle the lane. Early on stay back. Hes going to combo you whenever he gets a decent chance, but your leveling w up so just don't let him get full combos on you every time he wants to and focus on farming. This is going to make him feel like your scared and he has nothing to worry about. Once you hit lvl 9 and your w is doing 75 true dmg a hit while healing you for 25. Play as you have been and let him run himself low on mana, then bring the pain to HIM. I normally rush a Triforce when I play Irelia so at this point I have a sheen if not sheen + phage. Wukong does his combo and takes a little hp. As soon as he comes out of his stealth pop W>Q>E you should be able to get a stun on him and a few smacks. He will retreat at this point and start thinking about wtf just happened. It's all good, while hes doing that your farming/sustaining any dmg you took in the trade. He will more than likely try again with his combo. Rinse and repeat the process. Now you should have an advantage. Now he's thinking fuck this Irelia is op wtf. This is where you start the engagement and Q>E (if your w is still on cd which it should be because you don't to do this while he has decoy up) him and smack him around a bit. Continue to farm and zone him as you can. Push minions up the to tower go b buy some more parts to triforce and come back ready to do it all over again. It still takes timing, but maybe this will help end the flame war in this thread. If a Wukong can manage to absolutely zone you your a shitty Irelia player and that wukong deserves the win. But if you play smart Irelia will come out on top it just takes adaptability and foresight on the lane. [/quote] this exept i prefer rushing some armor to be able to fight him earlyer as irelia and go for mallet atmas^^ and there is no flaming in this thread, its an alive discussion^^ HUGE difference greez sam[/quote]