It's not futile good Sir. I just showed you that Greater Mark of Magic Penetration is straight up better than Greater Mark of Ability Power. The other "party" does not influence calculations that much. The most important thing is their MR which is calculated according to their base MR, their runes/masteries and items. There is only one mastery that reduces damage by a percentage and that is Evasive . The rest of the runes/masteries reduce magic damage by increasing MR only.

I used 30MR for my computations, but even if you use 41 or 50 MR, you will still get that Greater Mark of Magic Penetration are better than Greater Mark of Ability Power (yes I have done the calculations).

What I'm trying to say is that This is not a matter of debate, Greater Mark of Magic Penetration is better in all situations.

---

I agree with you on the Clarity summoner. If you find it is more useful than Flash for you and your build, then it is all good. However, a lot of people will down-vote your build just for that, so if you want to avoid this, it is best to include a discussion in your build explaining why you take Clarity over Flash. :)

Why are you using anything but data from the runes when we are discussing runes? We don't know what values the other party are using so this argument is futile. I wouldn't call it "********" however, since it has been a useful experiment in thought. =)

I've been told that Poppy is a troll pick, probably much to the amusement of the challenger players that carry with that champion consistently. Thanks for trying to inform about some people's opinions of Clarity but I'm well aware. Clarity can be used to mana bait, especially since most players don't time summoners, nothing can provide the "utility" of granting nearly half your total mana instantly to all nearby friendlies, and your position that it can be supplanted by "smarter play" is the exact sentiment I hold to justify leaving flash at home. Just play smarter and you won't need to flash away from that bind you should have considered a zone for about 3 seconds ago. Thanks for agreeing with me in that regard.

Just because I said you shouldn't be trading with autos in early game doesn't mean that anything relating to autos are wasted, nor won't be ridiculously overpowered in late game. And it's really touching how much value you put into flash. You do realize that if you just play better, and by that I mean learn how to zone much more efficiently, you won't need to flash away from fizz because he can't even get near you. I've played these match ups without flash many times.

I suggest you learn how to do these calculations properly, especially since you are providing advice on guides which is clearly wrong. You do more damage with Greater Mark of Magic Penetration than with Greater Mark of Ability Power at all levels. Here are the details:
- With your main harass tool (Q), you deal 2.95, 5.37, 7.78, 10.2, 12.6 more damage with MP over AP marks, through ranks 1-5 of the ability.
- The calculations I did assume you have a Doran's Ring as your starting item, and the offensive masteries you listed (save for Double-Edged Sword ). I did two separate calculations, one with the runes you listed, and one with the same runes but replacing AP marks with MP marks, assuming the enemy champion has a MR of 30.
- The Greater Mark of Magic Penetration or hybrid pen marks provide EVEN more damage than Greater Mark of Ability Power once you build some AP items.
- I knew your calculations were complete BS without even doing calculations of my own, but I did them and posted the results here so you can have a reference to compare to.

You should also be aware that Clarity is considered a troll pick in ranked games:
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4704539&highlight=clarity

It's a troll pick not because people are close minded - it sucks because it provides very little utility and can be easily supplanted by a few runes/masteries and smart play.

Why do you have 4 points in fury if you it's not built for auto attacks? And you need flash no matter what lol, doesnt matter what you say about how far away you can stay, a fizz or zed can kill you easily with their gap closers.

UPDATE: I just did calculations comparing the best hybrid pen setup and a full AP setup against a control setup with no runes. With the hybrid setup, at level 1 against an Ahri with no additional MR, you deal 5.4 extra damage with auto attacks, 17.3 extra damage with your Q, and 4.6 extra damage with each of your passive procs. With the full AP setup, against the same Ahri, you deal no extra damage with auto attacks, 21.5 extra damage with your Q, and 8.64 extra damage with each of your passive procs. The net difference between the two builds is 2.84 in favor of the flat AP build. Also, considering that this guide advocates a zone style which makes auto attack trades not necessary nor possible, we only want to look at the difference in Q damage.

If you play correctly, the game won't last 50 minutes and therefore the enemy will never have enough gold nor time to build enough resistance to live through your burst, even if they wanted to.

Thanks for the feedback. Rather than address the "problems" you see in the guide, I'm just going to talk to you about your "opinions".

1. I actually have never considered to compare such runes, and I'd love to see proof to back up your statement. Maybe start with the order of calculations? Flat magic reduction, then percentage magic reduction, percentage magic penetration, then flat magic penetration.

2. I will consider adding a detailed section for item purchases but aside from Tear, the entire lane is situational. You don't want to cater to your opponents when you build because to do so means you are playing the matchup incorrectly and giving them the advantage.

3. This is speculation. You can do without flash... it's a cop-out. For any champion, if you know your zone, and are aware of the enemy's zone, you won't be the one dying. Instead, what ends up happening is I have three people head up in my lane trying to siege my tower because it is the only tier one that remains on the map. =) You don't need ignite or exhaust to secure kills because that is not your primary focus (starving them of farm by playing correctly is a better tactic than being eager for kills), and also because Ziggs knows his damage and has an ultimate with huge range.

4. I don't think you are too familiar with Ziggs. His W has a great knockback distance. I'll upload videos demonstrating this, but speaking of Lee Sin. He is a great jungler to attempt this on. Bait him to Q you, and when he tries to close the gap with its recast, just wait. Placed correctly, your W will interrupt him in transit and send you both deep into friendly tower zone. Then watch as he spastically burns flash and safeguards to the enemy mid laner, unless you cc'd him also, in which case one of them is going to die on the retreat.

5. Hmm... Ziggs entire kit is an AoE, skill shot combo. There are several variations to be used in different scenarios, bigfatlp highlights Ziggs combos on stream when he plays him. He has one of the best waveclears in the game, making it easy for you to decide when you want to shove lane. And if you were mechanically familiar with Ziggs, it would be second nature that every time you force your opponent to farm under their tower, you last hit by bouncing your Q at max range while waiting for your R to come off cooldown so you can annihilate the wave again. You aren't going to be vulnerable to jungle ganks if you are playing Ziggs correctly, ever. He is the safest farmer I've ever seen.

6. This section is something I am interested in and will most likely add in the immediate future. Champions that need to all-in to force their enemies out of lane are actually terrible choices against Ziggs. You outrange and therefore outlast them. In the meantime, consider what champions might actually be able to put pressure on Ziggs with this style. These are pertinent thoughts that will shift your attention away from at first seemingly scary notions like never using flash again and towards understanding of the game on a much more calculated level.

There are quite a few problems with this guide, and I don't mean the unconventional ideas, which I'm fine with. I'll list some of them below:

1. Greater Mark of Ability Power is a horrible idea when you have greater mark of hybrid penetration and Greater Mark of Magic Penetration available. Either one of those will net you more damage even with rank 1 abilities, and the damage discrepancy increases as you rank your abilities more.

2. No discussion on items, you should have at least a small section on items which you do not have.

3. Summoner spells - so you are not taking flash on Ziggs, which is one of the easiest champions to all-in. Taking Clarity over Flash is again a terrible idea because one gank from a jungler with some cc and you are dead. Taking something else like Exhaust or Ignite is still a better idea than Clarity.

4. I don't know exactly how you would be able to knock both the opponent mid laner and jungler into tower range unless they are brain dead. You are not playing Lee Sin.
A good jungle gank will hurt you badly with this build if your jungler is not there to counter gank.

5. You don't really have a combo as Ziggs. What you do have is lots of poke and zoning. You can't really outfarm an opponent heavily unless you push him under the turret and harass him there. Most people should be able to cs decently well under turret. If you're trying to harass him under turret, then you are wide open for ganks, which will definitely come if the enemy jungler knows what he is doing.

6. You don't have any champion match-ups posted. I'd like to get an explanation on exactly how this "unpunishable" control works against a champion like Lissandra, Ahri, Zed which play the match-up properly.

I hope this helps, best of luck with improving your guide.

This is one of those guides I love to see. There's a clearly laid-out plan that takes the entire map into consideration, not just the lane, and while not conforming to the modern meta (cue the bleating sheep about troll picks) I still enjoyed the read. The emphasis on PRECISE gameplay is important, because in practice IMO this is a high-risk high-reward build except against certain low-range matchups.