Something about Void Staff

[quote=The Overmyynd]Just sent this as an email to someone explaining the pros and cons of [[void staff]], when to get it and when not to get it, and I thought I would share it with the community in case there were any questions on it. People think its this amazing cure all that will exponentially increase the damage their casters do. But that's not what it does at all.[[Void Staff]] is a counter item to things like [[Force of Nature]] and [[Abyssal Scepter]], not something that you spend gold on if nobody has any mres. Why? Because the staff gives 40% mpen. Not 40 mpen, 40%. If no one is building mres, that means that you are only taking away (generally) 15 mres. and thats IF you did NOT grab [[Sorcerer's Shoes]], which gives you straight 20 mpen, rendering the opponents down to 10. AND, on top of THAT, any AP caster mastery page will have that 10 mpen mastery, so with your sorc shoes and the mastery alone, you already are basically dealing truedamage to your opponents. At this point the passive on [[Void Staff]] is completely useless, and that 2300 gold could be used to buy the two components to [[Rabadon's Deathcap]] instead, which would lead to massively more damage. The stacking effect of penetrations go like this: In the math, first your runes/masteries take effect. Then straight mpen items take effect ( [[Sorcerer's Shoes]]) THEN the % mpen items take effect ( [[Void Staff]]) It may sound trivial and overly complicated, but it makes alot of sense. If someone has, let's say, 120 mres (which is frankly quite alot) and the % took over first THEN the flat, their mres would be taken down as such: -48 for % -20 for shes -10 for masteries -8 for runes Leaving the opponent with 34 mres. Now, looking at it the way it ACTUALLY goes: -10 for masterys -8 for runes -20 for shoes -33 for void leaving 49 mres. Thats quite a difference, especially in that zone where the points in mres count for a greater % of damage reduction. I know this is blah blah blah complicated BS, but looking at the math and science of the coding is what separates the players that use the game to pass the time, from the players that make money off of the game.[/quote]

[quote=Anastasios]Wait Masteries and Runes are calculated before items? I did NOT know that... This makes it insanely more complicated to calculate MPen...[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][quote=Anastasios] Wait Masteries and Runes are calculated before items? I did NOT know that... This makes it insanely more complicated to calculate MPen... [/quote] I'm 99.9% sure this is not the case.[/quote]

[quote=IceCreamy]No it doesn't, [[Magic Penetration]] really says it all. Firstly all the flat MPen will be counted ([[Sorcerer's Shoes]], [[Greater Mark of Insight]] and then all the % will be counted ([[Void Staff]], [[Arcane Knowledge]]. That's all there is to it, lol.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]First of all, what? [quote=The Overmyynd] In the math, first your runes/masteries take effect. Then straight mpen items take effect ([[Sorcerer's Shoes]]) THEN the % mpen items take effect ([[Void Staff]]) [/quote] This is all kinds of wrong. If you have % pen in masteries, it goes straight into your %pen if you get void staff giving you 46% mag pen. Same goes for if you have some flat pen in runes. It will always apply in this order: [list] [*]Flat reduction [*]% reduction [*]Flat pen [*]% Pen [/list] No matter where it comes from, it'll follow that order. Secondly, you get void staff to deal more damage no matter what. If you hit the tanks, which I know you will either by accident or with AoE, you'll be contributing more damage overall than if you stacked more AP. [b]Especially[/b] if you have a %HP damage skill like Eve's ult, Nasus ult or simply Brand's passive. Even on a 45 MR target (0 MR from runes or masteries and an Aegis), you would still drop them enough to benefit from getting void staff. Let's do math on a champion with 1:1 ratios on 3 skills vs someone with 100 MR, for simplicity's sake. Only 2 items are [[void staff]] and [[deathcap]] Deathcap grants 182 AP, void staff grants 70. All 3 skills are going to be dealing 100 base damage, again, for simplicity. Void staff damage, pre MR: 510 DCap damage. pre MR: 846 Now, 100 MR reduces damage by 50% so that drops Dcap's damage down to 423. Void staff however drops the MR to 60. This gives a reduction of about 38% and drops void staff's damage to 318.75 Now obviously, with the same amount of AP, or even more similar amounts, void staff would be coming out on top simply because it provides such an increase in damage. But, I'm losing my point here so, I'll stop rambling.[/quote]

[quote=The Overmyynd]Damn this is all alot more complicated than what i thought it was... I'm pretty sure I had a veteran explain things to me this way >.> Is there a link somewhere that explains precisely how this works? I want to read Riot's explanation myself to make sure I understand everything correctly. Don't want to be giving anyone else any more bad information o.0[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]It's just math really. Most of what I'm saying is found in Icecreamy's link about magic pen or in the magic resist section of the "official" wiki.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]The LoL wiki lists it as being Flat Reduction % Reduction Flat Penetration % Penetration However ever other source I can find lists it as % Reduction Flat Reduction Flat Penetration % Penetration Not sure it really matters much since I don't think I've ever actually seen anything with % reduction in the game.[/quote]

[quote=The Overmyynd]However, I WILL stand by my opinion that [[void staff]] is a counter item. [[sorcerer's shoes]] and [[arcane knowledge]] together with possible 9 [[greater mark of insight]] makes grabbing void to deal with champs that are not building mres a waste of resources. The % mpen at that point would simply be too low to make the passive worth it.[/quote]

[quote=The Overmyynd][quote=Luther3000] The LoL wiki lists it as being Flat Reduction % Reduction Flat Penetration % Penetration However the Mobafire wiki and an adjudicator on the forums list it as % Reduction Flat Reduction Flat Penetration % Penetration [/quote] Thats... quite the difference >.<[/quote]