Pip00p
<Member>
<Member>
Well said, I pretty much agree! Many heroes have been updated, some nerfed, some buffed. However, I disagree on the fact that the metagame relies on tanky DPS, many heavy burst AOE casters could absolutely destroy these tanky DPS:
,
,
(Not really but the buffs made me adore him AP haha),
, etc.
Other than that yes, games where
and
leave wars unscathed with a Dominating Streak DO NOT exist anymore.
I'm working on a Shaco build myself and tried testing out a sunfire/DPS Shaco amongst others, failing though haha.
P.S. It's good to see a DotA old-timer within our community :)
,
,
(Not really but the buffs made me adore him AP haha),
, etc.Other than that yes, games where
and
leave wars unscathed with a Dominating Streak DO NOT exist anymore.I'm working on a Shaco build myself and tried testing out a sunfire/DPS Shaco amongst others, failing though haha.
P.S. It's good to see a DotA old-timer within our community :)
By "Tanky DPS", I don't necessarily mean ACTUAL DPS, I just mean damage output xD I also left out the fact that CC is AMAZINGLY IMPORTANT, meaning squishies will NOT escape. That's one thing I miss from DotA, and that's the variety of CC; basically every character had a CC and you could actually play a variety of characters without losing a very important aspect for your team.
People like Kennen or Fiddlesticks who build some MR ( Abyssal Mask is a great hybrid) to increase survivability, along with some HP ( Rod of Ages is a great hybrid), and using Zhonya's Ring very effectively are great teammates.
It's just that pure AP/AD no longer works due to tanky builds that make the pures almost useless, and the pures are also focused down easily since they don't have any tankiness themselves.
People like Kennen or Fiddlesticks who build some MR (
Abyssal Mask is a great hybrid) to increase survivability, along with some HP ( Rod of Ages is a great hybrid), and using Zhonya's Ring very effectively are great teammates.It's just that pure AP/AD no longer works due to tanky builds that make the pures almost useless, and the pures are also focused down easily since they don't have any tankiness themselves.
Super old vet that almost never goes on Mobafire anymore. Contact me in game @ SixSonatas and Mobafire chat (NA).
I completely agree with you on updating guides and dissolving effect of playing pure AP & AD champs. Here's my 2 cents, a bit off topic but refers to the current playstyle.
While the Tanky DPS is the current meta game in US, there is more of a Split-Push + Single Targeting meta game in EU. EU likes to push turrets all at once, while they pick off players one by one in the jungle. I feel jungling is a huge proponent of the meta game currently as every good team has 1 jungler now that can make or break the game.
However there is a new meta game arising, and it works. I like to call it the Super Carry tactic. For example we throw in a Twitch at mid, put a Shen in the jungle, a Galio to solo top, and a Morgana + Kayle to lane bottom. Now the team comp is odd, but it's all based off one champion; that is Twitch. Teamfights in the current US metagame tend to occur at mid. Twitch mid game already has a couple of kills and enough to wreck an entire team in the right position. Twitch can go invisible and sit in the middle of the entire enemy team. When he comes out with his Ultimate activated here's what occurs.
1 enemy player drops instantly, the remaining 4 begin to focus Twitch. Morgana's
Black Shield protects him from being disabled and soaks up damage, while Galio's
Bulwark protects Twitch even more and let's Galio jump in between all of them with
Idol of Durand to drop the aggro off Twitch and allow Twitch to target them all at once. More enemies drop. Shen can global teleport out of the jungle and activate
Stand United to make Twitch invulnerable again and then drop aggro off him with his taunt. And to be even more annoying Kayle uses
Intervention on Twitch for assurance.
Why does this work? Because everyone is so focused on AOE teambattles they don't realize it just takes one super carry to wreck an entire team. If you have a team built around the super carry to make that champion invincible you'll Ace the other team everytime and your super carry can wreck the turrets by himself when they're all dead. Of course the composition can be changed around a little, maybe with Master Yi or Xin Zhao, but you get the point. You'll end the game so fast no one will be able to counter and build tanky enough to stop your team.
This style counters the Tanky DPS metagame and should not be overlooked.
While the Tanky DPS is the current meta game in US, there is more of a Split-Push + Single Targeting meta game in EU. EU likes to push turrets all at once, while they pick off players one by one in the jungle. I feel jungling is a huge proponent of the meta game currently as every good team has 1 jungler now that can make or break the game.
However there is a new meta game arising, and it works. I like to call it the Super Carry tactic. For example we throw in a Twitch at mid, put a Shen in the jungle, a Galio to solo top, and a Morgana + Kayle to lane bottom. Now the team comp is odd, but it's all based off one champion; that is Twitch. Teamfights in the current US metagame tend to occur at mid. Twitch mid game already has a couple of kills and enough to wreck an entire team in the right position. Twitch can go invisible and sit in the middle of the entire enemy team. When he comes out with his Ultimate activated here's what occurs.
1 enemy player drops instantly, the remaining 4 begin to focus Twitch. Morgana's
Black Shield protects him from being disabled and soaks up damage, while Galio's
Bulwark protects Twitch even more and let's Galio jump in between all of them with
Idol of Durand to drop the aggro off Twitch and allow Twitch to target them all at once. More enemies drop. Shen can global teleport out of the jungle and activate
Stand United to make Twitch invulnerable again and then drop aggro off him with his taunt. And to be even more annoying Kayle uses
Intervention on Twitch for assurance.Why does this work? Because everyone is so focused on AOE teambattles they don't realize it just takes one super carry to wreck an entire team. If you have a team built around the super carry to make that champion invincible you'll Ace the other team everytime and your super carry can wreck the turrets by himself when they're all dead. Of course the composition can be changed around a little, maybe with Master Yi or Xin Zhao, but you get the point. You'll end the game so fast no one will be able to counter and build tanky enough to stop your team.
This style counters the Tanky DPS metagame and should not be overlooked.
I agree on the Twitch thing; in fact, Elementz commented on it and you probably heard it first from him, too.
I know the split tactic that EU used because I watched the WCG finals with US vs EU, a few globals with teleport while avoiding team fights altogether. Thing is this can be easily countered with bans while tanky DPS is a build that many characters can do (as the US skillfully did by banning TF every game after the first loss), which means it's almost impossible to stop. The same thing holds true for super carry; if Twitch or any of the shielding support are banned (or counter-picked), it makes it hard for the tactic to come to fruition.
I know the split tactic that EU used because I watched the WCG finals with US vs EU, a few globals with teleport while avoiding team fights altogether. Thing is this can be easily countered with bans while tanky DPS is a build that many characters can do (as the US skillfully did by banning TF every game after the first loss), which means it's almost impossible to stop. The same thing holds true for super carry; if Twitch or any of the shielding support are banned (or counter-picked), it makes it hard for the tactic to come to fruition.
Super old vet that almost never goes on Mobafire anymore. Contact me in game @ SixSonatas and Mobafire chat (NA).
Hmm.. here's a little definition for the public:
Theory: Widely-accepted hypothesis that can be backed up by evidence
Hypothesis: A suggestion or guess based on what can be observed
So technically.... shouldn't it be hypothesis crafting?
Anyways, onto the tankyDPS metagame!
In general, if you don't get at least a Frozen Mallet on your DPS character you're going to be useless in ranked play if you come across a well thought team. Also, boots have to be Treads over 80% of the time. Thing that sucks is: More "tankiness" for casters is easily availible (RoA, Rylai's, Abyssal Scepter, Zhonyas). Not sure if I have much to craft like I can't think of anything that suits Yi that will make him a bit tankier, etc., etc. but I'd be glad to watch this topic a bit further.
P.S. Garen... -_____-
Theory: Widely-accepted hypothesis that can be backed up by evidence
Hypothesis: A suggestion or guess based on what can be observed
So technically.... shouldn't it be hypothesis crafting?
Anyways, onto the tankyDPS metagame!
In general, if you don't get at least a Frozen Mallet on your DPS character you're going to be useless in ranked play if you come across a well thought team. Also, boots have to be Treads over 80% of the time. Thing that sucks is: More "tankiness" for casters is easily availible (RoA, Rylai's, Abyssal Scepter, Zhonyas). Not sure if I have much to craft like I can't think of anything that suits Yi that will make him a bit tankier, etc., etc. but I'd be glad to watch this topic a bit further.
P.S. Garen... -_____-
Pip00p
<Member>
<Member>
PFP wrote:
Why does this work? Because everyone is so focused on AOE teambattles they don't realize it just takes one super carry to wreck an entire team. If you have a team built around the super carry to make that champion invincible you'll Ace the other team everytime and your super carry can wreck the turrets by himself when they're all dead. Of course the composition can be changed around a little, maybe with Master Yi or Xin Zhao, but you get the point. You'll end the game so fast no one will be able to counter and build tanky enough to stop your team.
Yes but if the other team is at least half decent, they would shutdown Twitch and all the other carries very early. Ganking is key in this game, much much much like DotA. Sure, laning is important, creep kills, etc. But that almost doesn't amount to shutting down enemy heroes or feeding yourself enough to take on more than 2 people at once. I mean, if you think about it, the team that has more creep kills may have more gold but that is not on par as to a gank, where you clear a lane of heroes and then push the tower. Much more effective.
Of course, this is presuming the ganks proceeds as plan. Counter ganks are harder but achievable and brings the same result if not better, 2 lanes clear of heroes, if the ganker was jungling, then he/she will have to catch up; a double win result.
So how does this relate to carries? A carry needs to be fed/"complete" to be effective in wars or 1v1 for some cases. If either team knows what they're doing, the carry won't have much freedom to own until pretty much late game. This really drags down team composition, even if the other 4 champions are complete war shutdown heroes in most cases because 4v5 is obviously a big handicap. As I stated earlier, it's rare to see a carry completely shutdown a whole team early on without being killed once or twice earlier in the next war, the tides could completely change by then.
Well the points you bring up in terms of ganking are pretty obvious, and a skilled Super Carry team will not be easily ganked. Twitch, Xin Zhao, Yi, Miss Fortune, Kog'Maw are all super carries and they can't all be banned so it's hard to stop that factor. And in terms of banning the support you have a wide variety between Warwick, Morgana, Shen, Kayle, or Galio. It's too hard to counter the playstlye with bans imo. This game style has been dominating in every match I've seen so far and the problem is you can't focus/shutdown the carry because he has shields on him constantly... Therefore the carry gets complete freedom to shut down and pick off the entire enemy team.
It's not the super carry that can't be banned, but rather the supports that can be taken away as soon as a team sees the strategy coming. Plus, if a team sees that coming, they can go 5- Exhaust.
The dominating metagame that is currently practically un-bannable is tanky damage, because there are so many characters that can build both survivability and damage; and the builds are just up to the players to create because items can't be banned. There are so many great hybrid items, too, that the damage doesn't even drop that much since the damage reduction is an exponentially decreasing percentage, a little bit of armor/MR will yield a significant amount of reduction.
Exhaust.The dominating metagame that is currently practically un-bannable is tanky damage, because there are so many characters that can build both survivability and damage; and the builds are just up to the players to create because items can't be banned. There are so many great hybrid items, too, that the damage doesn't even drop that much since the damage reduction is an exponentially decreasing percentage, a little bit of armor/MR will yield a significant amount of reduction.
Super old vet that almost never goes on Mobafire anymore. Contact me in game @ SixSonatas and Mobafire chat (NA).
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The current metagame (v1.0.0.105) is a tanky DPS metagame where squishies die instantly and anyone with a good amount of armor/MR are bulky enough to fight on, providing their team with a lot more DPS over time. This suggests that hybrids are often built from this and hybrid item builds, as such, are dominant during this metagame.
And personally, I believe that there are too many people who simply theory craft and never actually test that theory to make sure it works. It's not against the rules, but it's just annoying to see people write a half-hearted description and make a skill selection based on what they THINK works. IE: Irelia in the latest patch. Please actually OWN the hero and test that your theory works, or people will just think your build is a spam build like the other 50 that looks exactly alike.
I'm not against theory crafting, but what kind of theories are accepted without testing? Einstein never got away with developing any theories without proof behind it, and theories are generally updated as new proof is found.
So, I challenge you, new writers and old: Go test your theories in game and see what happens and what needs to be fixed, and update your guide as the metagame evolves! Having a great guide at one time is great, but keeping that guide good throughout time is better! Don't get left behind!