PSA on Voting Rules

[quote=Vapora Dark][quote=jhoijhoi]Unsure of why it was necessary to write any of the above comments targeting a specific guide (ie mine).[/quote] It's an example of a situation that could actually happen with a reasoning for downvoting that would actually hold according to the rule; and I think lots of people have already seen me criticising your use of [[the black cleaver]] so I don't think I was bringing up anything new. [quote]The only two reasons I can think of that would involve recruiting other people to downvote a guide is (1) for your own personal gain or (2) "because you don't like the author"[/quote] Or (3) the guide is legitimately (in the individual's opinion) bad, and there's apparently a rule that allows you to ask people to downvote bad guides. The rule itself says "Asking other MOBAFire members to downvote guides [b]for reasons other than guide content[/b]", so that explains a third reason why you would recruit people to downvote a guide. And if I were to ask people to specifically downvote just one guide rather than every [[ashe]] guide, where's the indication that it's being done for personal gain? Additionally, downvoting competition is allowed so long as the reason is based on the guide itself and not simply the fact that it's a competing guide. Therefore it's not a stretch to imply that since you can ask people to downvote guides, you can also ask them to downvote competing guides so long as the reason is based on the guide itself - in this hypothetical case, [[the black cleaver]]. [quote]So downvoting a guide based on one item that is shown as merely an option in the ACTUAL GUIDE (not the GUIDE SEARCH), I think, is more for personal gain than personal opinion[/quote] The fact that I downvoted your [[ashe]] guide probably well over a year ago for this exact reason shows that it can just as well be about personal opinion rather than personal gain. So why can asking people to downvote a guide based on personal opinion, following a rule that allows you to ask people to downvote a guide based on personal opinion (so long as those people agree with the opinion of course), only be about personal gain rather than personal opinion? You just shouldn't be allowed to ask people to downvote other people's content period, competition or not. No one should be allowed to play God with the guide rankings beyond what their own personal votes can achieve. I'll respond to the rest of the [[ashe]] stuff on your guide since it's off-topic.[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard][mention=jhoijhoi]: It's not out of order if the last build orders are just example builds. It's sort of irrelevant at that point whether it's in the first or the last slot, since, unless you've rebound your trinket key from four to some other key, either is actually incorrect because neither of those slots is the fourth one. It's only for personal gain if the guide they downvote is for the same champion as the one you downvoted. It's not exactly about not liking the person, either. It's simply a retaliation to them voicing their opinion, which is more specific and doesn't necessarily fit into what's covered, imo. I would just like to know if that's against the rules or not, as it used to be a problem and it's the primary reason I don't downvote any guide with C2V unless I know the person isn't the type to do that.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi][mention=The_Nameless_Bard] By out of order I mean having Blue Trinket before buying Hurricane etc. I actually have never thought of assigning the items to their "in-game" slots in the PO o.O I assume revenge-downvoting is not favoured, but would be hard to "prove". I think it'd be easy to say something along the lines of, "I checked out the guide, saw it had one item in the cheat sheet I didn't like, so downvoted" if ever accused of revenge-downvoting. But if the comment was something like, "Downvoting your guide because you downvoted mine", surely that is grounds for the vote to be removed?[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]I get your point Vapora. My first draft of this post had a stricter rule on asking others to downvote (basically not allowing it under any circumstances) but we ended up changing it. I'll discuss it more with Mowen to see if we'll keep it this way or not. I appreciate the feedback. As for revenge-voting, I feel that often falls under the "I don't like the author" category, but of course if the initial downvoter's guide is really terrible, then a downvote could easily be justified. I'm not sure if this requires its own separate rule but we can talk about it more.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]Adjusted the wording slightly after talking more with mowen. The gist of it is that we can't easily police what people talk about to their friends, and discussing guides (good or bad) is okay in our books. This means you can say to someone "hey, this guide sucks because of XYZ" and suggest they downvote if they agree. Similar to sharing a guide and suggesting they upvote if they agree the content is good. If brigading becomes a problem as a result of this rule I'm sure we can revisit it, but this is what we're going with. Obviously we aren't condoning public posts (like a forum thread) calling out a terrible guide for people to mass-downvote. As for revenge voting, this seems to be covered by existing rules. If it's clear that someone is voting out of pure spite, we can take action. If it's more of a case of "I noticed your guide sucks and downvoted it" then that would be allowed under the rules in this post. As I said in the main post, authors are allowed to downvote competing guides, but providing reasons for doing so makes it easier to distinguish legitimate criticism from vote manipulation.[/quote]