Lee Sin changes from Riot Chun

[quote=Khazem][quote=NicknameMy][spoiler=hurr durr] Again, if you see the calculations, where are the big nerfs you are talking about? [list] [*] [[flurry]]: A buff, which actually compensates a bit the W nerf. [*] [[sonic wave]]: Dat 5-10 damage is gonna change much, while having way more damage late, especially if you max it. [*] [[Resonating Strike]]: Yeah, the damage is a tad lower early, but lategame, it has potential to deal way more damage, especially against the preferred targets. [*] [[safeguard]]: Biggest nerf, well deserved nerf [*] [[iron will]]: Nothing happend, but you could say, it is buffed a bit by the passive change. [*] [[Tempest]]: You can see the damage type change as a nerf or as a good change. While mixed damage is stronger early, it is weaker late, so this is another way to adjust the power curve. The damage actually is nearly the same through the game, while maybe a bit lower late. [*] [[cripple]]: A nerf but an adjustment which was needed. Actually also a bugfix. [*] [[Dragon's Rage]]: Makes the spell more skill reliant, if you actually skill with it in the lane, you can deal way more damage by kicking the enemy through multiple minions. Only a nerf to bad players. Also, you now have to choose between damage or utility. [/list] Also, something to add for [[resonating strike]]: [quote]Emptylord: The new bonus damage equals as 8% of the target's missing health against enemies with 94 / 219 / 344 / 469 / 594 (+313 / 375 / 378 / 500 / 563 % AD) total health. The new bonus damage is better against enemies with less than the aforementioned amount of health; and worse against target's with more[/quote] The only real thing they took away from him is going crazy if he gets multiple items early. Which can be justified by the damage increase lategame. So guys, calm your tits, nearly nothing has changed compared to old lee except that needed W nerf. I would even change more to make those changes more noticeable: Base Damage adjusted to 53(+3.5 per level) from 55.8(+3.2 per level). This way, you would feel the changes more early and more late. At level 10, the new one would already give more. Or, if you want it rather extreme, go this: 48(+4 per level), would be also even at level 10.[/spoiler] [/quote] alright bud, why don't you just stick with your master yi and sion It's like I said earlier. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about and my jimbobs are really getting to the point where they can't take any more of these kind of posts[/quote]

[quote=FalseoGod]Tosh and OTG stahp, one can only rep once a day you know. Also don't worry Lee Sin players, Lee is now on the road for becoming some kind of hypercarry except he isn't \o/[/quote]

[quote=Toshabi][quote=OTGBionicArm] Upon mastering [[lee sin]], [[lee sin]] mains grow a neckbeard and materialize a trilby from thin air. It's sort of like puberty, only even more gross. [/quote] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/EF4NYiM.png[/IMG][/quote]

[quote=Latest Legend]Hmm... we need to make sure Lee players have to consistently make skilled plays in order to do well. You know what, let's make auto-attacks the foundation of his power! Not only that, let's make very sure everyone understands just when to use [[resonating strike]]. Yeah, and you tell me how Lee is going to set up such a "safety net" in the jungle with a 3 ward limit. It's not like they grow like mushrooms or anything. Those ward jumps, totally unacceptable. What's next, people jumping over walls without having to spend 75g and place a ward? [[shen]], [[graves]], [[vi]], [[zac]], [[leblanc]], [[ezreal]], [[zed]], [[caitlyn]], [[jarvan iv]], [[lucian]], [[renekton]], [[lissandra]], [[aatrox]], [[corki]], [[fizz]], [[gragas]], [[shaco]], [[tryndamere]]. And let's not forget [[kassadin]]. And that's excluding high cd ults(heca, shyv...), somewhat harder abilities(riven, nid...) and timing or enemy reliant(yi, yasuo...). Disclaimer: Latest Legend does not claim that all or some of the above listed champions have the same wall-jumping capabilities in both cd and reach as the current Lee. And of course this isn't anything like a decent comparison but I think this manages to show that ward-jumping relatively isn't such a mindless, costless and overpowered technique. I think the only thing the last few patches have been doing is making this game easier. Champions don't get nerfed because they're OP but because people don't seem know how to play against them or simply can't grasp the concept of a counter(bad luck). This rework certainly seems to do just that.[/quote]

[quote=Toshabi][quote=Latest Legend] Hmm... we need to make sure Lee players have to consistently make skilled plays in order to do well. You know what, let's make auto-attacks the foundation of his power! Not only that, let's make very sure everyone understands just when to use [[resonating strike]]. Yeah, and you tell me how Lee is going to set up such a "safety net" in the jungle with a 3 ward limit. It's not like they grow like mushrooms or anything. Those ward jumps, totally unacceptable. What's next, people jumping over walls without having to spend 75g and place a ward? [[shen]], [[graves]], [[vi]], [[zac]], [[leblanc]], [[ezreal]], [[zed]], [[caitlyn]], [[jarvan iv]], [[lucian]], [[renekton]], [[lissandra]], [[aatrox]], [[corki]], [[fizz]], [[gragas]], [[shaco]], [[tryndamere]]. And let's not forget [[kassadin]]. And that's excluding high cd ults(heca, fiddle...), somewhat harder abilities(riven, nid...) and timing or enemy reliant(yi, yasuo...). Disclaimer: Latest Legend does not claim that all or some of the above listed champions have the same wall-jumping capabilities in both cd and reach as the current Lee. And of course this isn't anything like a decent comparison but I think this manages to show that ward-jumping relatively isn't such a mindless, costless and overpowered technique. I think the only thing the last few patches have been doing is making this game easier. Champions don't get nerfed because they're OP but because people don't seem know how to play against them or simply can't grasp the concept of a counter(bad luck). This rework certainly seems to do just that. [/quote] How could you be upset when this is nothing more than a Lee sin buff? It's like you don't even understand the game at all. Period. (I seriously lost my shit when you said Riven and Nidalee have hard wall jumping abilities)[/quote]

[quote=Latest Legend]I don't care whether it's a buff or not. I just want to be enabled and encouraged to play creatively and not like a machine. (And yes, it's not hard but it's harder than a ward and a w and requires a bit of positioning)[/quote]

[quote=Toshabi][quote=Latest Legend] I don't care whether it's a buff or not. I just want to be enabled and encouraged to play creatively and not like a machine. (And yes, it's not hard but it's harder than a ward and a w and requires a bit of positioning) [/quote] So clearly, you've just stated that you don't care. It's a change. You pissed and shitted your pants simultaneously. Your nipples are inflamed with rage because Riot just touched a champion you probably don't even play. But he was touched. OH MY GOD! 9-1-1! 911! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! LEE SIN HAS BEEN TOUCHED! CALL MY MOM! NO CALL THE POLICE! CALL SUPER MAN![/quote]

[quote=FantasySniper][quote=utopus] First they nerf my shaco jungle, then they nerf my alistar jungle, then they nerf my Nunu jungle, then they nerf my Jarvan, then they nerf my rammus jungle, and now they nerf my lee sin jungle? Honestly, **** off riot. If i wasn't in my gold promos right now, i'd stop playing the game. The ult nerf is going to be particularly bitter. The safeguard nerf is harsh, but understandable. I still think that the way to go about nerfing safeguard would be to do something with the cooldown. For instance, i think the way to approach the safeguard nerf is to double the cooldown, and add a clause saying, "The cooldown of [[safeguard / iron will]] is reduced by 50% if lee sin jumps to a unit." Increasing the energy cost of safeguard to 100 will just soil any attempts of playmaking, whereas reworking the cooldown will allow for ward jumps to be available in sticky situations, but would make it so that it wouldn't greatly inrease lee sin's mobility in extended skirmishes. Alternatively, Riot could just go ahead and start nerfing... you know, Vi? Elise? Wukong? Panth? Perhaps the OP junglers that actually see play like every game? /logic [/quote] I think they want ward jumps to be used as an escape tool rather than [b][color=#00ff00]solo[/color][/b] playmaking tool. Increasing the likelihood that [[safeguard / iron will]] be used in conjunction with your teammates like it was supposed to be. They are reworking Elise and doing some things with Vi, I beleive.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]I think I've gotten permanent brain damage from reading posts by Darcurse and Nicknamemy[/quote]

[quote=utopus][quote=Lugignaf] [quote=utopus] I still think that the way to go about nerfing safeguard would be to do something with the cooldown. For instance, i think the way to approach the safeguard nerf is to double the cooldown, and add a clause saying, "The cooldown of [[safeguard / iron will]] is reduced by 50% if lee sin jumps to a unit." Increasing the energy cost of safeguard to 100 will just soil any attempts of playmaking, whereas reworking the cooldown will allow for ward jumps to be available in sticky situations, but would make it so that it wouldn't greatly inrease lee sin's mobility in extended skirmishes. [/quote] But... that actually doesn't change anything though 'cause a "unit" is also a ward. [/quote] Beuuggghhh you know what i mean, right? ;n; My proposed change would double the cooldown for ward jumps, so that lee sin couldn't ward jump for mobility more than once/twice in an extended trade[/quote]